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Who claims that it would?
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i have my beliefs in god.. but sometimes when people say to pray.. it will fix everything.. it can drive me nuts... everyone is able to have their own beliefs.. but when it comes to pushing their beliefs and trying to tell us that prayers will end all evil... it bothers me too...
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It's almost like people have faith in God, or something.
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well.. they do... and im not arguing with them at all... to each their own.. i belive also.. but i do not believe that by praying.. it is going to stop evil from happening such as these horrible school shootings... and such..
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So you "believe" in God, but you don't believe that he can affect the world he created? P.S. This is the time to exit out the back door if you don't want one hell of a theology lesson.
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yes.. i have my beliefs.. however i do not believe in praying for a school shooting not to happen... because if its going to happen.. its going to happen.. there is no prayer that is going to stop it... as for a theology lesson.. youre telling me that if by chance.. you heard news that some maniac was going to blow up a school tomorrow.. you would only pray... prayer is not going to prevent it... no matter how many people pray... it takes actions amoungst us to prevent it.. not just words to god... so.. yes.. that is what im saying..
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God can act, yes?
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so if that is the case... why in the world hasnt he stopped all those deaths that happen when some maniac goes nuts and shoots people in the schools.... prayer does not prevent these from happening... only we the people of the earth can stop them... not words to god..
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prayer to god to help the victims and ease their pain .. yes... but to prevent something from happening... no..
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Who's more powerful, God or man?
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you didnt answer my question... if god could prevent these school shootings.. then why hasnt he already?? the world has suffered enough with these school shootings... there has been way toooooooo many of them..... im sure that when one happens.. everyone in the world is praying that another wont happen.. but we all know it will because people have to be copycats... so why doesnt he hear our prayers then... why does it continue to happen if we.. the world are praying to him to stop this terrible act before it happens again.... a prayer CAN NOT stop something from happening... otherwise.. there would never ever be another school shooting...
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NO COMMENT MAKO028???
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Uhm... Maybe you missed out on the, oh, say, past 2,000 years of history, but there've been some pretty messed up things happening for a long time. The school shootings of today hardly compare to the drug addicted child soldiers of Africa, or the thousands of Jews flayed during the Holocaust. A lot of people have prayed for a lot of things to stop, but yet they happen. Part of the "problem" is that God has his own agenda. He's not here so that we can all live in peace and comfort sitting around the campfire singing Kumbaya. (or however you spell it) We suffer and die. All of us. Some more so than others, but it's pretty universal. This came from the hand of God. Moreover, God makes frequent use of these things to punish and to cut off, as well as to glorify. Lest we forget, the world will be destroyed by the hand of God. Heck, when God came to this earth, he HIMSELF suffered and died. There's not a backdoor on the clause; everyone goes through life, everyone feels the pain, everyone dies. The details of when and where are, by and large, inconsequential to the fact that it is. God's not going to lift the burden of suffering and death until it is his will to do so. The other part of the problem, and this is more tactile, is that what most people pray for is the relief of a symptom instead of a cure to a disease. School shootings are not the disease, they're a symptom. We glorify random violence and treat people as replacable, expendable objects. We sit our children down in rooms and have them programmed, frequently without true empathy, for hours every day. We deny them the right to self-defense while their peers bully and ridicule them, instead offering them the escape of digitized, glorified violence, where people are portrayed as replacable, expendable objects. Few parents even take the time to ponder what it all does to their children. All of which, while bad, still only points towards the greater causes. If a person wisely tackling the greater causes prays, God is far more likely to listen to that person than to someone praying for the Lord to cure the symptom for their wicked convenience. Further, you don't see all the threads of fate. Less'n you do, in which case, pardon me, but I felt it was safe to make the assumption. *erhem* You don't see all the threads of fate. The prayer of a concerned teacher or student for general aid or protection over other schools might gain the hand of the Lord in softening the heart of a would be killer at their school, who they didn't even know. Everyone looks for sweeping gestures, no one sees the small brushes. I could go on, but you do seem rather anxious for a reply, and I'm late for an appointment. So, until later, c'est la vie!
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Uhm... Maybe you missed out on the, oh, say, past 2,000 years of history, but there've been some pretty messed up things happening for a long time. The school shootings of today hardly compare to the drug addicted child soldiers of Africa, or the thousands of Jews flayed during the Holocaust. A lot of people have prayed for a lot of things to stop, but yet they happen. you just said it yourself!!! prayer DOES NOT prevent things from happening...
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I AM NOT A HEARTLESS PERSON... I BELIEVE THAT ALL THAT HAS BEEN DONE WITH THE HOLOCAUST AND SUCH ARE JUST PLAIN WRONG... however... you just admitted what i have been trying to say this whole time you have been fighting with me.... PRAYER DOES NOT PREVENT DISASTERS!!!!!!!!
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NOW WHAT???????
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um...it wouldnt. in short.
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um...it wouldnt. in short. thankyou for your input....
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what else would you like me to say then?
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nothing... it was just trying to get the evidence out in which prayer does not stop disasters.... i mean.. to each their own in their beliefs... and i too believe.. however.. trying to get someone to understand that prayer does not work in that way... was making me a little upset trying to argue the point.... its just nice to have someone else have an opinion on this as well... so thankyou.
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theres no point gettin upset about it kiddo. i learned a while ago here that its veeeery difficult to get people to change thier opinions. especially the god squad lol.
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lol... i know.. thanks... kiddo????? lol... i just turned 33 today.. hehehehehe...
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Lil bit Shi, I didn't say that prayer doesn't work. God just doesn't play Johnny Jump-Up for whoever prays, nor does he alter his own agenda. Jesus prayed that he wouldn't have to offer himself on the cross, but he still had to do it. Conversely, when he prayed to raise Lazarus from the dead, the boy got up with a fine howdedoo. There are plenty of other examples of effective prayer throughout the Bible, and I'm sure if you ask around you can hear some pretty weird stories about direct answers to prayer. Another example. I'm a Christian. Full-blown, born-again, Bible readin', Jesus-praisin' Christian. Were I to, say, pray for a million dollars to fall into my lap in an Armani briefcase, despite my being a full-blown Christian, the Lord is unlikely to fulfill my prayer. The problem is that I've prayed for something that boils down to a morsel for my own greed, and the fulfillment of such a request is against the nature of God. God does not flip-flop on his nature or character. No righteouss prayer, no million dollars. If God did answer that prayer, it would probably lead to one of those ironic, be-careful-what-you-wish-for moral lessons, which look great on the movie screen but tend to lose the buddy comedy appeal in real life. But, more than likely, I just sit there and God sits there, and there's no briefcase full of money. Were I to ask him for food while I'm hungry, and I have, he wouldn't have trouble feeding me. This is not a selfish request or asking God to defy his nature. Positive request, positive answer. The principle holds true for all prayers. If you ask for something, regardless of what it is, only to feed your vanity, than it's not likely to happen even if it's a good thing you're asking for. Conversely, "The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much." Prayer does more than you think it does. The "end school shootings" prayers don't accomplish much because they're prayed by people who, for the most part, don’t really give a ****. Which is a harsh thing to say that a lot of people don’t understand, but it’s true. God doesn't usually bail us out of the consequences for our poor choices, nor does he answer selfish prayers. I also find it odd that you call school shootings a disaster.
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Lil bit Shi, I also find it odd that you call school shootings a disaster. ARE YOU SERIOUS???
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as i said before.. and i will always stick to my belief no matter what anyone says or tries to tell me... prayers DO NOT stop disasters... all the preaching or stories is not going to change my mind.. and im sorry if i offend you.. its not something that i am trying to do.. as you have your beliefs.. i have mine..
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A disaster is something you can't do much to stop, like an earthquake or a storm. There's a lot that can be done to avoid a school shooting. Even at the simplest level, what you have is essentially a hundred or so people failing to stop a lone, usually frail attacker. as i said before.. and i will always stick to my belief no matter what anyone says or tries to tell me... prayers DO NOT stop disasters... all the preaching or stories is not going to change my mind.. and im sorry if i offend you.. its not something that i am trying to do.. as you have your beliefs.. i have mine.. Your beliefs conflict with each other and are based only on what you want to believe, regardless of whether or not those beliefs are true or right. But, like you said, nothing will change your mind.
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let me tell you a little story.. i was beat by an abuser for ten years.. and once i finally got the courage to leave... he stalked me, broke into my house, followed me, called me more than a dozen times a day... i had an order of protection on him.. and the cops refused to help me telling me that what he was doing were accidents... i prayed and i prayed for relief.. for safety for my children and i... the state of ny stepped in and put an order of neglect on me because as they told me and i quote..."you allowed your beatings..".. because of this, i lost my daycare license through the state... I HAVE NEVER EVER BEAT OR HURT A CHILD!!! so they were disiplining me... after about 4 months of trying everything in my power to get someone to help me from my abuser... i picked my kids up and moved out of the area... 6 hours away... i had no family.. i had no friends... just myself and my kids in a foreign place... we were happy.. we were safe... and i thanked god for this... about a month later.. he found us.... and the state of ny told me that i violated this neglect charge by moving out of the area in which it was placed.... THEY TOOK MY CHILDREN AWAY... AND I HAVE BEEN FIGHTING FOR THEM FOR OVER 3 YEARS NOW... they even placed my son back with the abuser.. so it wasnt that they were trying to help me save my kids... now.... although i am still and will always fight for my kids... the abuser has all the rights in the world given to him on a silver platter... while my oldest is cutting to relieve her pain.. ran away and ended up in foster care... all because she wants to be home... she is 16 and has no rights either... my middle daughter was put with her father in which he himself has 15 years of domestic violence under his bealt and my son... who was put with the abuser.. has ran away several times because he cant stand his father and wants to be home with his mommy... NOW.... i believe in god.. yes i do... BUT HOW CAN ANY GOD ALLOW THIS TO HAPPEN???????? A DISASTER??? MAYBE NOT IN YOUR EYES.. HOWEVER.. IN MY EYES AND THE EYES OF MY CHILDREN.. YES.. IT IS!!!! AND ALL THE PRAYERS OF ASKING FOR HELP ASKING FOR SAFETY FOR US... AND THEN PRAYING TO TELL HIM THANKS FOR LETTING US GET THAT... IT DIDNT MATTER!!! DONT YOU SEE????? www.myspace.com/missing_my_children check it out... look at their pictures.. of their smiling faces when they are with me... and imagine how it is to live with out your mom who did nothing but try to get you to safety!!! and no god in the world would listen!!!!
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What personal legal actions have you taken? I actually know a far amount of legal loopholes. Anyways, I know maybe a few things regarding your situation with the Lord, but you'd have to be willing to hear them.
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well.. i have actually searched out attorneys.. however they want money down that i dont have... they actually have had cases of sort and won... i need to find one that is probono... i have searched the web these past 3 years and have printed them out.. having a full binder of laws and regulations and amendment rights that have been broken.. along with the state law number in which was passed... i have also written to the white house, senators, congressmen and talk shows... either they dont care or send me a letter either from them themselves or just a secretary who refuses to give them the request of help... i have also written to talk shows and cnn news... as for the praying.. i have prayed .. i have told god how sorry i was and asked for forgiveness for all that i have sinned... and still here i sit 3 years later with no children... children in which i was blessed to have... only to be taken because some person beat on me.... and when i finally left... everyone said that i had no right to move so far.. and didnt care why... and that he still found us...
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I'll do a little research and get back to you on the legalities. Couldn't hurt, right? As for God, well, have you tried asking in the name of Christ, or asking what God's will in the situation is? That might seem trite, but I'm down to two bucks because I gave to charity and I can't seem to find a job to save my life, so I'm not saying that from a point of naivete.
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Besides which, I'll pray about it.
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thankyou... sooo much... yes... i have tried to pray to god in all sort of ways.. i have even tried to pray for the people who have the authorities .. those who have made these poor decisions for my children and their rights.... i have tried everything... i have even made web site after web site... for my children.. such as the myspace account.. and i have other accounts as well... out there... but anyways.. thankyou so much for your help... and understanding in our situation... it means a lot to me..
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Just to clarify, this'll take awhile. I'll keep a bit in touch so you know I didn't just disappear into the wilds on you, but legal research isn't exactly the same as popping on the History channel for an hour. Or even slogging through history books, for that matter.
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yeah, i know.. it took me two years to find the information that i already have.. if you want.. my email is lil_bit_shie(at)hotmail(dot)com
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Got it. I'll be around.
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thank you..